Sex Addiction 101: Everything You Need To Know About Triggers & What to Do About Them

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Craig Perra:
Welcome to Sex Afflictions & Porn Addictions. I am your host Craig Perra from themindfulhabit.com. I’m the founder of The Mindful Habits System, the world’s top at home addiction program for men struggling with sex and porn addiction, and I base that claim on the over 240 independent, verified, authenticated real testimonials from men, and their wives, and this broadcast is to empower you to create healthy sexuality, and a great life. This is part of my sex addiction one-on-one series, and today we’re going to talk about everything an addict needs to know about triggers, everything a partner needs to know about triggers. Listen, this is human. Everything that anybody needs to know about triggers especially in these challenging times where fear is consuming us.

If you have the slightest bit of mental health challenges, and I think we all do, I know I do, managing fear, and managing your triggers, this is a crucial, critical time to get good at it, because own it or it will own you. I have a very special guest today, our resident expert, a psychologist in his home country of Poland. He’s a graduate of the University of Adam Mickiewicz in Poznan. He is a recovery coach getting an advanced certification as a psychosexual therapist. You certified in The Mindful Habit System, the first person to become certified in The Mindful Habit System. He is my brother, he is my best friend. He was a former client, Adrian Sztobryn, welcome to the program brother.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Welcome everybody. Thank you for having me.

Craig Perra:
Privilege, privilege, privilege, so today we’re talking about triggers. Don’t you think Adrian, like if you can manage your triggers now, you can manage them anytime. Are you seeing more stress, in clients’ lives, and heck, even in your life personally with the coronavirus?

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah, of course. I mean, in terms of clients, I noticed that many people are worried about losing their jobs, or they’re already experiencing some financial loss. I think that’s creating a lot of stress for people, whether they will be able to pay for their mortgage, whether they are going to be able to maintain the coaching services with me, whether they’re going to be able to put food on the table for the family. All of that is really scary, so that brings a lot of, I would say stress, people are quite often triggered by stress. That’s one of the most, I would say, common triggers. 

Craig Perra:
Yeah, fear, right?

Adrian Sztobryn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Craig Perra:
Fear, I like to think of stress as just a new word for an old friend and that friend is fear, and I’m seeing the same. People are scared. There’s a lot of unknowns, and the more unknowns that we have, the more fearful we are going to be so the more triggers that you’re going to have, and what I love about this podcast, Adrian, or the subject that we’re talking about now is this is, like your system is being stressed.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Craig Perra:
Everything is going to be magnified and worse because of the coronavirus, so let’s jump in. Let’s talk about triggers. Let’s start with the easy one first, right? What is a trigger?

Adrian Sztobryn:
Well, for me, the trigger is any healing situation or thought that is firing up the compulsive reaction that is starting the cycle of escape, of coping, of numbing. So that can be any place, any thought, or memory, or a feeling that is really  hard for us to cope with, or reminds us of something… we call something that starts this compulsive cycle, this habit cycle that we talk about in our system.

Craig Perra:
It kicks everything in motion.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah, exactly.

Craig Perra:
Like the trigger on the gun.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Craig Perra:
No bullet comes out without that trigger being pulled. The way I like to describe it is an energy shift in the body from positive to negative. Now, now there are positive triggers, right? But, we’re talking about an energy shift in the body from positive to negative, and defining negative as,loss of agency, and control.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Craig Perra:
Now, when people think about triggers, Adrian, or at least when they come to us, particularly, if they’ve been working in another program, they seem to have a good understanding of their sexual triggers. I mean, listen, and to me, Adrian, the sexual triggers aren’t even the most important. What are the types of triggers that people need to pay attention to?

Adrian Sztobryn:
Well, I would say that most triggers in their essence are non-sexual. By that I mean that we want to act out, to have some kind of sexual activity as an outcome. But the trigger isn’t sexual. It is not because we don’t have enough sex most of the times, it is because we are not meeting certain psychological needs, or we are in a place that reminds us of something, so those are those types of the triggers. Basic types of triggers are places that you know reminds you of something. It can be a strip club, it can be a place where you met a past lover, it can be a place where you usually masturbate. All of those places that are connected somehow with either difficult emotions or acting out.

Adrian Sztobryn:
So places, then people. There are certain people that are triggering for us. And it doesn’t mean that we have to get rid of those people from our lives. We don’t have to get rid of them, but we have to be careful around them. Those people can be people from our family. We can be emotionally triggered by our partner, by our children, by our parents. I think that is the most common case, probably.

Craig Perra:
The boss.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah, the boss, exactly. So, those people really push our buttons. 

Craig Perra:
Yeah. Well what I just wanted to highlight on that is the deeper the relationship, the closer the relationship, the better, the stronger ability that person has to trigger you.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah.

Craig Perra:
So, I want people to see that like inverse connection. The closer you are, the more likely you are to be triggered by that person, and any brother out there who listens to this knows there is nobody that can push your buttons like your partner.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah, yeah.

Craig Perra:
Nobody can push your buttons like your partner. It is the opposite side of the love coin, and we’re going to get into, you know why, why that’s true. So yeah, some great examples, keep going.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Sure, so like I said, people, it can be also people that you acted out with. Some of those people tend to reach out. Guys, for example, if you were engaged in a sugar daddy relationship, and then sugar babies are calling sometimes, or writing messages. And you know, those are triggering people obviously, that’s a no brainer, so those are the people that you definitely can erase from your life if you want to stay sober. Then the other thing that can be triggering the other category of triggers is events. There are certain events that are triggering for us, and it can be either, you know, some kind of convention, or a meeting that is stressful, or difficult for us for some reason.

Adrian Sztobryn:
But it can also be a situation where somebody yells at you, or you know, when you’re being criticized, or when somebody you know, realizes that you lied, for example and they calll you up on that. All those things are events and they happen. We can imagine they happen outside of you, and they can be very triggering, so it’s important to be aware of those events. Some of them are, I would say, scheduled. We know that they are going to come, so we can prepare for them, and I think that is the best shield against those kinds of situations, so the third category of triggers is events.

Adrian Sztobryn:
There are also feelings that are triggering, there are no negative feelings, or no wrong feelings, bad feelings. I don’t use that vocabulary anymore. I tried to not use it. I think that there are feelings that are challenging, and difficult to handle for certain people, and those are triggering feelings. It can be a feeling of joy, or a feeling of bliss even per person. It doesn’t have to be something that we associate usually with the negative state of mind, like anger, sadness, loneliness. It can be something positive as well, but any emotions.

Craig Perra:
Well, I want to stop there.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah.

Craig Perra:
And jump in, Adrian, because you hit something that is very important. Triggers, they’re not all negative, right? The energy shift in the body from positive to negative, that’s what’s happening underneath the surface, but basically what triggers you is being a human, at anytime you feel you’re not good enough, anytime you make a mistake, anytime you fail, anytime you experience fear around your mortality, anytime you succeed, you get triggered, so many of our clients, when they’re feeling good about themselves, when they may have accomplished something and did something that you know, would make someone feel proud, well that sabotage trigger that they’re not good enough trigger fires off.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Exactly.

Craig Perra:
So, you know, as we’re going through this, and this is why we wanted to talk about all the different kinds of trigger events, these people, these places, these feelings. It is the human condition. There is no universe where you are going to get rid of your triggers.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah.

Craig Perra:
Now, I understand, and I have read that the people who disappear in the mountain for 14 years, are able to train their brains where they don’t react, but here’s the thing, what we want to and what we teach our clients is you are going to get triggered. Here is what you do when you do get triggers. This is why it’s so important to master them, so are there any other types of triggers you mentioned? The feelings both good and bad?

Adrian Sztobryn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Craig Perra:
Anything left on that before we move on to the next question?

Adrian Sztobryn:
Sure. I think that thoughts can be triggering as well.

Craig Perra:
Yes, of course.

Adrian Sztobryn:
So, sometimes, you know, in the habit cycle when you have the thought usually we feel that something triggered that thought, but the thought can be triggering by itself. For example, this is what you’ve brought up also, something good happens and you think, “I don’t deserve it, or something is weird, something is wrong. I shouldn’t be feeling like this, right?” It can be something that we are aware of or something that we aren’t of, but those thoughts can be definitely triggering. When you beat yourself up, when you, criticize yourself, you want to be perfect, you have the perfectionistic attitude, you have too many expectations, or you are constantly doubting yourself. All those thoughts are definitely triggering.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Sometimes also we rationalize. You know, what I mean by that is we tell ourselves that it’s okay to act out this time. It’s going to be the last time, or I’m just curious what’s new, or you know, I am going to do it, just cut ties or something.

Craig Perra:
Yeah. I know, I know what to do. I’ll do it next time.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah, yeah.

Craig Perra:
I know what to do, I’ll do it next time and this is, we’re seeing a lot of this now, right? Because of the fear that people are experiencing. You know, they’re obviously getting triggered, and in ways that they probably couldn’t even imagine or certainly haven’t been trained for. Here’s what I like to say to that voice. Here’s what I say to that voice in my head, which is do it right next time. I say to that voice, how I manage this crisis…

Adrian Sztobryn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Craig Perra:
…Is how I’m going to manage the next crisis.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah.

Craig Perra:
How I manage this trigger is how I’m going to manage the next trigger, and what that did when I finally realized that I stopped kicking the can down the field, or kicking the ball down the field, and that told me that I had to take action now. So the thoughts that Adrian’s talking about, that to me, that is the true addiction. You are addicted to your thoughts and part and parcel in integral to being successful long term is changing your relationship with your thoughts, using your awareness of that trigger, and that thought to drive positive action instead of sweeping you away in the undertow. Any other categories of triggers that you want to put out there?

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah, I will, but this one thing came up when you were talking about managing the crisis later on. You know, what I’m doing when I have those thoughts that maybe next time I will deal with this better? I like to scare myself a little bit. I’m asking myself what if this is the last time? What… if there will be no next time? You know, because this is the reality of our life. We never know, and I think those circumstances now can arise, that awareness also that we never know what will happen tomorrow. We are still going to leave here, and I don’t mean to scare people by that. I’m just saying that this is for me, this is motivating if I remind myself that there may be no next time chance, so maybe this time I have to really put my best effort, put my best foot in and see what was going to be the outcome.

Craig Perra:
I love it. I’ve got my tattoo on my arm.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah.

Craig Perra:
Remember death.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah.

Craig Perra:
Live each day like it’s your last, you don’t know what’s going to happen. You have no guarantees in life. They’re zero, they’re zero. Awesome. Any other categories of triggers?

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah, the last one that I have is habits. There are some habits that are triggering for us by themselves, and by that I mean, for example, late night scrolling on Facebook,  watching movies alone in your room, taking your phone to the bathroom, so those things by themselves, they are a relapse. They R&D people by themselves, but they can trigger you to do the same thing as before. If you know that you act out with your phone in the bathroom, then taking your phone to the bathroom is a very triggering habit, right? so just breaking that pattern by just putting the phone away can make a big difference. So habits can be triggering.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Sometimes drinking, you know, a drinking habit. If you’re drinking at parties, and after that you go home and the first thing you do after going home you open up a computer, or a phone in your bed, and you’re a little bit drunk. That was mine, it was always extremely hard for me to resist the temptation. When I was under influence, that was a bad habit for me. I had to stop, I was drinking, I was always with somebody, you know, coming back, so I’m not alone, and I had those safety precautions in place. So that habit won’t, won’t be happening, and now I’m not drinking at all for at least it started recently, but I’m sober now. No drinking for a couple of weeks, so cross your fingers.

Craig Perra:
Yes. Well listen, I need to be clear. You’re even social drinking, you weren’t actively treating an alcohol problem.

Adrian Sztobryn:
No, no, no, no, no (laughs) just social-

Craig Perra:
Yeah.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah, and any drinking.

Craig Perra:
That’s right, yeah, and I’ll tell you, I have a two drink maximum.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Craig Perra:
You know, every horrible mistake that I have made in my life, there was alcohol.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Craig Perra:
It was part of that from getting stabbed when I was 18 years old in the neck, to getting arrested, to, my serious acting out towards the end of my downward spiral 10 years ago. Yeah, great point, so let me ask you this question, okay? What does it mean that triggers are biologically hardwired? What do you mean by that?

Adrian Sztobryn:
Well, that was something that when I started the program with you Craig to be frank, it was a little bit unclear to me. Why, what do you mean by that? And what I learned during my recovery was that like you said, triggers are essential part of our life. There are going to be circumstances where we are unbalanced. It’s impossible to maintain perfect balance and a perfect state of non-reaction forever. You know, maybe some enlightened people can do that, but my personal experience says that it’s impossible. So that’s what I think means that triggers are biologically hardwired, so we are going to respond to certain situations automatically. We are going to feel challenge, emotional challenge when something happens in our life, for example, we lose a loved one, right? Or there is a global pandemic.

Adrian Sztobryn:
It’s a natural response, it’s part of our biology and you know, we can’t fight with that, right? Like, when you were, for example, single, and you didn’t have a relationship for a very long time, it’s very natural for you to feel lonely also, and that’s triggering so for me, this is what it means that triggers are biologically hardwired, and this is part of our life as human beings.

Craig Perra:
At the base of the brain we have an amygdala.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah.

Craig Perra:
That amygdala fires when we experience fear, and you know the significance of that statement, your triggers… By the way, when someone told that to me, your triggers are biologically hardwired, I got to be honest, I was like, “Fuck you.” (laughs) Just sounded so terrifying, see because I was getting help. I was going to the meetings, I was just trying but I had it wrong. I thought that I would get to a place where that wouldn’t bother me, where I wouldn’t get triggered, and when I shifted my focus, when I realized that, wait a minute, what if I assume that I’m going to get triggered again, hmm?

Craig Perra:
What if, and we’re going to talk about what to do about them in a minute, but if I assume that they were going to happen, what if I could use them? What if I could use those triggers which today instead of rob me of yesterday, robbed me of agency and control, and sent me down a dark path. What if I could use them to wake up and there’s a beautiful, beautiful secret there that we’re going to talk about in a minute. So that’s what we talk about. There’s no universe where you’re not going to get triggered. There’s no amount of therapy, or counseling, or meditation, or maybe mindfulness, maybe again, maybe there are some enlightened people that don’t get triggered. I don’t know them. I’ve never met someone like that.

Craig Perra:
So you’re going to get triggered. What do you do about it? Let’s talk about that now, Adrian. What do you do about it when you get triggered?

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah, and I think that when we talk about how to deal with triggers, there’s a situation that always comes up to my mind. I remember when I was doing the recovery work with you. It was eight years ago, I think. Yeah.

Craig Perra:
Yeah, around there, man, woo.

Adrian Sztobryn:
So we were doing the recovery work, and I was sober for half a year already, so I was doing well in the program, and I remember that during that time I had a really rough relationship with my partner, very often we weren’t really being connected. We were fighting a lot.  when I was feeling triggered by that situation, I was feeling like, we don’t have that connection. Everything else was triggering as well, so I was going outside of home, and I couldn’t focus on what I needed to do because my head was just spinning around, looking at different women, or I was in a yoga class and I focused as well. I was imagining what I would do with those people around, right?

Adrian Sztobryn:
So, I was very triggered when there were some emotional needs that weren’t getting met. I was feeling disconnected, lonely, defensive, all those things were happening in the background in the same situation, I remember the same yoga class, I went there when I felt really great, and my relationship started to get better, and I felt this love, and collection, and I had no response from the same situation. You know, women in spandex, yoga pants, nothing. I was just doing the yoga class, but that showed me something that there are those emotional needs that we have to fulfill in order to not feel as triggered, to not feel triggered at all sometimes. I think it’s possible to not react to the same situations in the same way over time even though I still feel triggered by certain things, like I still feel triggered by booze, that’s why I’m not drinking now.

Adrian Sztobryn:
I still feel triggered if I don’t sleep for a couple of days, so those things didn’t change, but some things did change, and I think it did change thanks to those responses that I had when I felt triggered, so I was noticing my head is spinning. I’m really starting to objectify girls around me, so the way to fight with that for me was to first of all, notice what I’m doing, right? So, stop for a second and observe. What’s going on inside of your mind? Why are you looking at those women? What are you imagining? So, just observing what’s going on, stopping for a second, you know? Focusing on my breath, taking a couple deep breaths, and asking myself, what is missing right now? What am I really needing at this moment? Is fantasizing about having sex with a stranger that I don’t know, and don’t care about going to help me?

Adrian Sztobryn:
Those questions were really helpful for me just to redirect my attention, and focus on what I need to do, and quite often it was about connection. It was about reaching out to people, and talking about my feelings reconnecting with my partner. Sometimes it was about just taking better self care, doing my mornings meditation, or running, or just doing something that will make me discharge the anger, right? Sometimes I was doing push ups for example, as part of my response to triggers, so I think that response has to be done in this way. That we respond to three areas of our functioning; the mental, the physical and the emotional area for our functioning. We have to ask ourselves certain questions, and thoughts. That’s very important.

Adrian Sztobryn:
We also have to reach out to other people, and take action, and maybe do some pushups, do something physical, do something with our body, and we also have to work with our feelings, which is getting in touch with what I’m feeling right now, and maybe expressing my feelings in some way or I’m talking about that with somebody, so those were the things that I was always trying to do when I was feeling triggered. Just some questions that would help me to redirect my thoughts, then physical action, removing myself from the triggering environment, looking away, and then maybe try to work with that feeling somehow, either breathing deeply, and observing it, or reaching out to somebody, talking about how I feel. Those kinds of things were really helpful, and what helps you Craig? What are your ways?

Craig Perra:
It’s when I came to see my triggers as gifts, I want to, I’m going to repeat something that Adrian said that is absolute genius and is so, so, so important is okay, so I got to accept them, but then he said, “Once I accept them, accept the reality that I’m going to be triggered, what do I do about them?” And, I saw that my triggers every single time whenever my cage was rattled, whenever I experienced an energy shift in the body from positive to negative, I needed something. I needed something, I needed attention, I needed significance, I needed love and connection. I needed something. Those, I saw, and I encourage everyone listening to this broadcast, see your triggers as needs indicators. You need something. You need something.

Craig Perra:
And, Adrian is so brilliantly correct when he says that our response to them, not just in the moment, there needs to be a holistic, no, here’s your curse sex addicts and porn addicts, here’s your curse. The cure is the aggressive pursuit of a great life, period. That’s it. There’s no mediocrity, there’s no malaise, there’s no average that’s going to bring you through this, because you are going to get triggered, so when I saw my triggers as needs indicators, then I said, what do I do about it? So, that means I have to use them, use those triggers to prompt action. Now, listen, those triggers that we’re talking about, brothers and sisters, those triggers that we’re talking about right now, that wiring has been in place since your childhood, that  wiring has been in place since your childhood, so you’ve got to use your awareness of those triggers, and the thoughts that immediately follow to drive positive action.

Craig Perra:
So, I came up with my trigger response plan, and my trigger response plan changed my life! My trigger response plan is first wrong for a right. The clear trigger that the thought that I had, that self-deprecating thought, the sexual thought wrong, insert the right thought. That’s your basic cognitive behavioral thought replacement. Easy peasy, but that wasn’t enough, so then I’d go to if that wasn’t enough, I’d go to step two, and I’d snap that elastic band on my wrist, aversion therapy, but sometimes that wasn’t enough, so then I’d go to step three, mindful breathing, five long mindful breathes, five count in, five count out. Now I didn’t realize it then, but I was touching the Vegas nerve, which is the mind-body connection, that was relaxing the body, restoring agency, and control, but sometimes that wasn’t enough, then I’d go to step four, and that’s when I knew I had to engage the body. I had to do something. I’d do some pushups, sit ups, plank position.

Craig Perra:
Now, I do a forward fold, which I bend my knees, rest my torso onto my upper thighs as I’m bent, or I’m just bending over. I’m bending over, bending over, but relaxing my neck, the muscles in my face. Loosening up that lower back, and then, step five, I call somebody. If I was really rattled and things didn’t go one, two, three, four, at least I had built enough capacity to reach out to someone and say, hey, I’m off. I’m off. I need something. My trigger told me I need something now I’m getting it. I’m going to connect instead of disconnect, so the triggers, the same things that brought me to both of us, Adrian, to near, you know, to suicide attempts-

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah.

Craig Perra:
To the lowest that we’ve ever been have become these incredible gifts that tell me when I’m snapping out of it, when I’m drifting off from being mindful, when I am reacting, because I said so, I felt a fear, and that’s the gift for everybody here, is you are going to be triggered like you’ve never been triggered before and just one thing isn’t going to do it. You’ve got to practice mindfulness every day. You’ve got to practice rigorous self care, you’ve got to live a purpose driven life. Oh, and by the way (laughs) you’ve got to have a protocol to respond to your triggers, and for me, that’s my trigger response plan.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah, I totally agree, Craig. I couldn’t say it better. So I think this is also maybe a gift that we are giving to you guys now in this time of turmoil, use that. What I’m doing is right now I’m setting goals for myself each day. I’m doing a lot of mindfulness. I am having a plan for each hour of the day, so you can really use that time to elevate your recovery. Maybe this is the worst time of your life, but I think in some sense there will not be a better time to recover than right now, so use that time to really elevate your recovery.

Craig Perra:
If you can do it here, you can do it now, you can do it anytime, and if you are in a place where you want structured support, if you want community of coaching, and a system that we’ve touched on parts of that system here today, that’s my group coaching program, so I want to let you know what we’ve done, is that I always have set aside a limited number of scholarships per month. I have increased that number significantly. We have scholarships that we’re offering to people who want to get into that group coaching program. Adrian has got a phenomenal one-on-one coaching program. Adrian, can you tell people just a little bit about that.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Sure, mm-hmm (affirmative). So, I’m doing Enhanced Accountability Program for guys who want to stay sober, and be accountable during their recovery work. That means if I’m going to check in with you every week, see how you are progressing on your goals, give you tips, how to achieve goals in your recovery. We are going to exchange emails, we’ve got support, motivation, personal coaching from me, and all of that is included in, I would say a very, inexpensive package. Right now it’s 50% off for the first mile, so $199 per month, and you know, this is I think a really good price the offer.

Adrian Sztobryn:
What I’m doing is I’m focusing also on my personal tools that really helped me to create and elevate my recovery to the whole new level. I’m learning several, some like sexology post grad, so there’s a lot of knowledge that I can share with you in terms of how to improve your sex life, how to make sure that you’re meeting the needs of your body as well, because we also have bodies, we don’t only have psychology, and I think sometimes we forget about that when we’re dealing with those issues, so all of that is included in this Enhanced Accountability Program coaching package.

Craig Perra:
Yeah, Adrian’s been doing this one-on-one coaching package for like five years now and we’ve structured it in a way where it’s just a right amount for not everybody, but for the right guy. It is the perfect amount of one on one coaching. Also as I mentioned, you’ve got the group coaching option, and you can learn more about that on the website, themindfulhabit.com. If you want to connect with Adrian, okay. It’s so important that you work with the person that you connect with, and some people connect with me, some people connect with Adrian, some people connect with George and we all have our strengths, and so, very important, in fact, it’s one of the most significant predictors of results in any coaching, or therapeutic relationship is your connection to that person, and if you connect with Adrian, please call him at 1800-214-5249, that’s 1800-214-5249.

Craig Perra:
Or, you can reach out to him by email, [email protected], or you can call the number on the website, so definitely some options. I want to thank you so much for being here Adrian.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Thank you for having me. Thank you very much.

Craig Perra:
And, you will be back. Adrian is a critically important member of my team. He leads group coaching calls in the group coaching program. He helps and responds to guys on our community forum, reviewing their assignments. He also does one on one work, and the Enhanced Accountability Program, so I’m so blessed and privileged to have him on the team, so blessed and privileged, Adrian, to call you a friend. I just feel so grateful for the conversations that we’ve had over the course of the past two days where we talk about our feelings, where we talk about our fears and we know (laughs) you know.

Adrian Sztobryn:
Yeah.

Craig Perra:
We know not to keep them bottled up and that-

Adrian Sztobryn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Craig Perra:
You know, it’s our job now to be leaders, and that’s what we’re doing, so proud to have you on the team. Thank you brothers for listening. We’ll be back tomorrow or the next day with another podcast. Embrace your power of choice. Feed the right wolf inside you, make it great. Use this crisis to grow. Honored to help. Bye everybody.

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