Listen to “Sex Addiction 101: 7 Reasons Why The Disease Based Model is Hurting You” on Spreaker.

     

Read an Edited Transcript of the Show:

Craig (00:31):
You are listening to sex afflictions and porn addictions and I am your host Craig Perra from www.themindfulhabit.com, I’m the founder of The Mindful Habit System and this is a podcast to empower you to create healthy sexuality and a great life. Thank you so much for listening and today we’re going to talk about sex addiction. We’re going to talk a little bit about doctrine. We’re going to talk about why the disease based model is keeping you stuck. You’re going to come out of this podcast with a clear understanding why, if that’s all you’re doing, why it’s insufficient to get you where you want to go. And to help me do that, I have a very special guest. He is our resident expert at the Mindful Habit. He’s a psychologist. He’s a graduate of the University of Adam Mickiewicz in Poland a recovery coach. He’s getting certified as a psycho sexual therapist as we speak. And before all those fancy titles, it was certified first in the Mindful Habit System. He is my brother. He is my best friend. He was a former client, Adrian steroid burden. Welcome brother. 

Adrian (01:56):
Thank you. Thank you for having me. Welcome.

Craig (01:59):
No, listen man, I’m so glad you’re here. And you know, when, when I, I continue to be blown away, Adrian, by all the incredible work that you’re doing and, and to see your growth and, and, and sexual knowledge. It has been such a major, major, major contributor to the Mindful Habit System and your clients and you know, is it fair to say that as your education increased the further away you got from using the disease based model with your clients?

Adrian (02:41):
Yeah, most definitely. I think even during this first I would say the first era of my work when I was coaching people, as the Mindful Habit System, and I started realizing that the addiction model or the disease model doesn’t work for many people. That there are some other reasons there is something else happening behind the curtain that I don’t yet understand, but that it isn’t definitely a model that fits everybody. And some people are very stuck because of that. Some people cannot progress because of that. And that’s how I started to be more hungry of that knowledge. And I started reaching out for new resources and the more I learned, the more complex these became in my mind, the more I understood

Craig (03:29):
And, and, and we’re going to dive into some of that complexity today, specifically Adrian. And, just for those of you who may be new or you know, just figuring this out, you may have seen some of the articles online, “Is sex addiction real?” So academically there is a debate being had as we speak. And on one side of that debate, you have the Pat Carnes C-SAT certified sex addiction therapist. You know, you’re treating this as a disease using the legacy of 12 steps and an 85 year old model invented for the treatment of alcoholism and applying it. So on one side you got that group on the other side you’ve got the sex positive community. And part of that community, the American Society for Sex Educators, Counselors and Therapists, one of the leading and highest educated groups in the United States of sex educators, counselors and therapists around record saying the disease based model is negligent and it falls beneath the standard of care.

Craig (04:50):
That’s the debate and that matters,g and it matters to you because you need to make sure that you are approaching this problem in a robust, comprehensive way. And we’re going to talk today about why exactly you need to do that. Before we hit the record button Adrian, we were talking about, you know, why the disease model just alone doesn’t work. And you gave me a great example. Let’s start there. Let’s answer that question for you. Why does this model fail for so many people?

Adrian (05:32):
Sure. Because in the disease based model of addiction we have that chemical, that dependency right in the background. So there are hormones in our brain that are released when we are excited, that’s dopamine and a couple of other hormones. And you know, the idea is that because we have unnaturally high levels of dopamine, when we want a spark, we have a moment when we feel very low and that deregulates our whole brain and it changes the way it functions. But you know I would say a simpler explanation that shows it can be a totally different issue altogether. For example, there may be a situation where you’re for some reason not as active sexually as you’d like to be.

Adrian (06:25):
For example, your partner is maybe having a different libedo or something. Maybe the intimacy between you two is affected by the conflicts that you have in your relationship and you’re not having enough sex or don’t come enough stimulation. Maybe you hate yourself for the things you like in sex also, and you don’t realize them. You don’t do them. So because of that, you’re under your sexual optimum. And that concept of sexual optimum is where you want to be. This is when you feel you have enough sex, you’re feeling great, you’re feeling healthy, you’re feeling full in a sense. Just like you, when you’re hungry and you eat and after a good meal you feel full. You don’t feel like you want to eat another huge pizza, right? You’re just feeling full. I’m good for some time, right?

Adrian (07:18):
Until you feel that again. And Oh, sexuality is very similar in that sense that we have certain amount of sexual food that we need to eat. It’s different for everybody, depending on hormones and many other things. And you know, because of those simple reasons, sometimes we are starving ourselves sexually. And when you’re starving for a very long time, you become obsessed with food. If you’re starving sexually, you become obsessed with sex. And that creates out of control behaviors. When you know, you start to do things that you wouldn’t do otherwise. You know, it started to masturbate in public. You start to call the prostitutes you start to obsess about these. You spend enormous amounts of time just thinking about it, right? So this is a sign that you are, you know, you are starved for a very long time and now we are going overboard with this whole thing.

Adrian (08:13):
And the idea is that actually in order to heal yourself and to be more in control you shouldn’t need this abstinence. You shouldn’t stay away from sex. And you know, don’t touch yourself, don’t touch anybody. That’s the addiction model. You should actually stay in your sexual realm, accept your sexuality and embrace it and have as much sex as your body needs. And a great question here is how much sex my body needs actually because we don’t know and we’re supposed to push through like it’s totally out of control. I want sex all the time. I remember when I was having this issue, I was thinking about sex all the time. I know if you can relate with that Craig, but you know, just all the time thinking about what I could do with where and so on.

Craig (09:00):
Agreed. Right? It’s this concept of sexual optimum. Adrian, I think is really important because it’s different for everybody. It’s different within relationships. And it’s just a perfect example if that compulsive sexual behavior is the result of you being out of your sexual optimum. Now that invites the question for you is what is your sexual outlet optimum? You know, that leads to this, this obsession. It’s all you think about it. Right? And that once you resist persistent grows and grows, that consumes you. And the chore, there is more sexual intimacy with your partner. Maybe masturbating to control your higher libido. How many guys do we see Adrian who you know, successful, have that higher libido and just have no concept of how to proactively manage it. And the reaction is shut it down when in fact that often is not the correct approach. Agreed?

Adrian (10:13):
Yeah, sure. And it sounds passable in most cases. Also, science shows that you’d be though can be lowered to the level of, you know, even non-existence only for people who have lowly be the already natural. So those guys can be selling bad. They can just, you don’t freeze their sexuality. In a sense when they are not having opportunities or they are kind of blocked mentally, they can do that. But for most people who have had sexually though, it’s impossible, they have to embrace that they’d be doing, most people don’t know how to do it. They push their partners to have sex with them. But guess what? Your partner can have a very different sexual optimum, the new half. Right. And then when you were forcing the partner or pushing the partner, manipulating the partner to have sex with you when you want it that phrase, the situation of resentment of conflict, imagine that, you know, you don’t eat very much and if you eat two slices of pizza, you feel very full and somebody forces you and manipulate you into eating cold pizza each day, right.

Adrian (11:19):
You would start to resent that person, right. Like that would be something. Like it’s not what my body wants. And similar, many women have lower sexual libido than men and they don’t want as much sex, which, which leaves the guy sexually frustrated. They are under their sexual optimum and they push the partner, the partner gets resentful. So they seek that sexual release somewhere else. And I think that really fits many of our clients’ shoes. So it’s not, I’m all about the addiction, it’s about learning to manage your sexuality and feed yourself and everybody in a way that it needs.

Craig (11:58):
Yeah. Brilliant. And that’s why brother, we’d say here at the Mindful Habit, the goal has to be to create healthy sexuality and you know this. Listen, I want you listener to think about this concept of sexual optimum. What is yours? If you’re in a relationship, what is your partner’s sexual optimum? And just listen, this is just one area we could literally go on for the rest of the afternoon on all the different roles that compulsive sexual behavior can impact, being out of your sexual optimum is just one. Let’s go to another one, Adrian, cause we literally could spend I think, a whole podcast on that. But, what about the attachment strategy, how does sexual compulsive sexual behavior play a role there?

Adrian (12:59):
So this was the topic that I was actually researching for my master degree. And the idea that I started with is that we’ve had this attachment system where you know, when we are little children between the age of zero to three years old we create this attachment to our primary figure, you know, of, of care and primary figure of attachment. That will be the mom. Usually sometimes the dad, if mom is not present, but the primary figure is usually the first person that we see in the first person I am with in a relationship with. That person is extremely important for the child, obviously. So we formed something and all the other mammals in the animal kingdom level-up it in the same way we develop those strategies that allow us to become close with this attachment figure to become safe.

Adrian (13:53):
So to then we learn how to grab mom when she’s close and seek safety in her arms to cry when we need something. The mommy’s alarm and she’s calling me responding to her needs. And that creates this basic idea in the child that when I need something, I have somebody that’s saved for me that will provide for me. I can trust that person. I can become close with that person. That’s with this very basic idea. When it doesn’t happen for many reasons. Either you were left for adoption or your parents didn’t have time or they weren’t very responsive to your needs, you develop different strategies. For example we, when the child is left alone, it starts crying hysterically and the mom comes back and tries to calm them down, but the child is still crying. So that is like a hyper activation strategy.

Adrian (14:51):
They want to be close all the time. I will not let mommy go out of the room. I will not go to school. I want to be with my parent all the time because I feel unsafe. That’s a hyper activation strategy. This attachment system is very active. We want to be closed all the time because of fear of losing that person, right. Fear that they are going to go somewhere and not provide. So that is showing us that there is some unsafety in that relationship. That’s the hyperactivation started, you know just to wrap the head around that we have also the the activating strategy, which means the child at some point decides that nobody decides. I would say it’s a very primary process. It doesn’t happen on the, I’ll say conscious level, but when the mother is not showing up, for example, the child is crying and the mother is not showing back at some point or the caretakers are changing all the time.

Adrian (15:44):
At some point the child has to realize I cannot attach to anybody, those people will not respond to my needs. I try and nobody cares. So I have to be on my own. I have to take care of myself. I have to be independent. I have to withdraw from those relationships. Those people, if I depend on them, I am just going to feel sad. And put myself on stress, you know, so it’s better to stay off the attachment. And that’s the deactivating strategy. So we’ve thrown from emotional closeness and we tried to kind of separate ourselves and be as independent as we can so we don’t depend on others. And this sexual compulsive behavior can be used for both reasons, which is very interesting for me because usually we do something to either detach from somebody’s right to just go away at least that person and, and, and just be in a separate, or we do something to become close.

Adrian (16:42):
But sexuality can do both things. It can be used as a, you know, as a hyper activation strategy when the person wants to be close all the time. They want to be having sex all the time, coming intimacy all the time, having fun disease about people all the time. That’s the hyper activation strategy that creates instant sense of emotional closeness for those people. And it can use also to detach. You know, I’m having, I’m masturbating on my own. We farmed instead of having sex with my partner because I don’t want to become too close. I want to be independent. You know, I, I don’t want to depend on that person in terms of satisfying my sexuality. Being too close. It’s scary, right? So, so I have to do something to separate myself. Maybe I will cheat. Maybe I’ll do with somebody else when things get stuck.

Adrian (17:34):
That’s tough. Especially so, so this is another, another explanation. Those things happen for many guys and it’s formed very, very early on in life. It’s, it’s just mind blowing when you think of really how complicated this issue is and how many [inaudible] parts that you brother’s struggling with this, you know, how many threads you got to pull on cause it’s never one thing. And, and listen, what role does of fetish or you know, accepting, you know, what you like, what role does that play? And this Adrian, well, yeah, that’s, that’s another thing that we didn’t speak about. You know, sometimes we judge our behaviors. For example, they don’t fit our moral standard or they don’t fit a tool what we think we are as a person or our status, whatever. Yeah. Those things we judge morally. And when we do that, then we don’t allow ourselves.

Adrian (18:39):
You have those fantasies or preferences or those fetishes. And when we, when we don’t allow ourselves to have our preferences, fetishes, sexual fantasies quite often it becomes, you know, again, I’m a patrol behavior because of something that I mentioned before because you’re out of your sexual optimum, right? You’re not giving yourself enough proper stimulation in your body and not proper stimulation. And for some people that proper stimulation will be BDSM practices. For some other people it will be just having tender sex with the wife, right? It’s very different for everybody. But very often we hate our offenses. We don’t lie that we attracted to female feeds or that’d be like, I don’t know, sex or that we are bisexual or homosexual. And we tried to kind of, he’ll bat impulses in ourselves and we feel that it’s always, we need with us that it’s out of control.

Adrian (19:37):
But actually if the behavior is not out of control, our judgements are making it seem that it’s just appears as for any healthy person into left Peter. When you’re passing a stranger, it’s very attractive person. You’re going to notice that this an attractive person. You’re going to feel something in your body. That’s, that’s a sexual impulse. And, and we don’t judge those impulses because when we are okay with our sexuality, right? But when it becomes something scary, something morally wrong, we start judging those impulses. And then we believe that when I have those impulses, it’s out of control. I have to fight with it. You know, I have to kill that fetish. I have to shame myself into not doing something. But many of those behaviors actually can be practiced in a very healthy, consensual way with a loving partner. Somebody that Cassini, a lot of fetishes are there, other agrees with you. It’s consensual. It doesn’t have to be this scary isolating thing. It’s a force and it’s an energy that must be channeled, that must be directed. And we like to say, as I’ve said before, we treat

Craig (20:46):
Intimacy

Adrian (20:47):
Disorders.

Craig (20:49):
I also like to say whenever we talk about fetishes that which you resist persists, and the demonizing of those parts only makes them stronger. It must be channel and directed. And you know, what’s interesting, Adrian, as we’re talking about each one of these, these factors in terms of why you know, what role the sexual compulsive behavior plays in a person’s life, which is really what we’re doing. I mean, it, it’s, it’s, it’s, I hope is also highlighting for you. Okay. And, and, and really the purpose of this broadcast is to no, like ask questions, like, stop, think, and reflect and say, wait a minute, what role? Wait, where do what, where do I, where do I see some of me over here? Where do I see some of me over here? And you’re, you’re going to see a little bit of yourself maybe in each one of the categories that we’re talking about.

Craig (21:50):
Mmm [inaudible] the goal is so you can better understand this very complicated area where it is too simple and wrong too. I have an addiction. I must stop my addiction. There’s my solution. And, and, and it, and it simply doesn’t work that way. So, and there are so many other factors. There are so many other roles that the compulsive sexual behavior plays. What about as a soothing habit? Let’s talk about that for a little bit. Adrian, talk about compulsive sexuality as a soothing habit. And States have a strong emotional arousal cause we hear all the time the positive attribute of the compulsive behavior, the purpose that it’s serving is emotional regulation. So tell me a little bit about this.

Adrian (22:47):
Well, yeah, I think that this is mainly the topic or the model that we started with when we started the Mindful Habit. You started the Mindful Habit then, then I, you know, I, I helped you with many things and I think that, you know, this was the model that we start with, that there are people who are struggling with their feelings, right? And they have those strong emotions, triggers and then we, you know we’d have to do something about those triggers. We have to create other alternative copies at health, help us feel better in the moment without using sex for that reason. Right? So I think that’s something that most of us can relate to because we usually act out, masturbate. Most of the people I think we deal with, act out in mass when they are feeling either sad, lonely, tired, exhausted, angry sometimes, you know, because they feel rejected lonely, you know, all of those difficult feelings that we don’t know really how to deal with are, you know, creating these, you know, this idea of I have to escape.

Adrian (23:54):
You know, I have to, I have to call, I have to numb. And that’s when these suiting behavior comes up and it’s very natural behavior for children, for example. When they are feeling a huge pressure stress some children masturbate instrumentally, which means that they use masturbation, not for sexual purposes, but just to discharge the emotional tension. And for some people it stays the same later on in life that we don’t use or we don’t use these compulsive sex for discharging our sexual tension. It’s not about what our body wants. It’s more about how can I run away from those feelings that are so difficult for me, you know, like, how can I feel better for a moment? So I think that’s, you know, that’s a big chunk of what we’re dealing with, but not the only thing.

Craig (24:46):
Yeah. Well, and, and I just want to remind you, dear listener, my last podcast was on the positive attributes of your compulsive porn use. And what we did there is we identify all of the needs that the behavior might be me meeting and, and helping you numb Copen escape. Is that the top of everybody’s list? And as we go through, you know, when you think about the list that we’re talking about today you know, I want you to see what I want you to ask yourself and, and help you understand what needs is this behavior meeting.

Craig (25:35):
Is it a way of deactivating and, or hyper activating my attachment strategy. Okay. Adrian, I did a podcast on attachment theory. This might be an opportunity to go back and learn how those pass may be impacting your today. Second is wait, my compulsive sexual behavior is the result of me being out of my sexual optimum. So many great questions for you to ask yourself there. What is your sexual optimum? What needs is a compulsive sexual behavior? Meaning my compulsive sexual behavior is the lack of my accepting my fetish. I’m uncomfortable about what, what, what touches that arousal mechanism. It sickens me, I repulse and I resist. And that what you resist. I’m persist. My compulsive sexual behavior is a soothing habit. And States have strong emotional arousal, meaning I’m using it to numb, cope an escape. Mmm. And so like literally each one of those subjects is a, is a, is a broadcast in and of itself. These are the questions I want you thinking about and there’s more, you know, so, so, so we’re, we’re not done yet beyond these so common you know, behavior is the symptom. This is a soothing habit. What about identity and low self esteem, age and what role can sexual on behavior play there? Let’s talk about that for a minute.

Adrian (27:13):
Yeah. Well you know, essential conquest can be very empowering in a sense. You know, we may feel power rule, powerful and we may feel that we have value that we are significant when we are starting to annual sexual liaison or we are attractive in somebody else’s eyes. Right? So I think that, you know, these can serve a role as, you know, a way to deal with our low self esteem identity crisis. So instead of empowering ourselves through action, through setting goals, through reminding ourselves what are our values and what is our value in this world we start, you know, using other people to kind of reassure us that we can fall if somebody is attracted to me. Somebody wants to have sex with me, somebody is in love with me, that means I have value, right?

Adrian (28:14):
Sometimes it’s even deeper and it’s about the identity. I don’t know who I am because you know, that’s my only identity, the sex addicts. Otherwise, I don’t know why yet. As a person you know, who, who would I be? We filed. That’s sexual combustion. I don’t know. So that’s an identity crisis where you have to, as a very deported, I really recommend therapy for that. That part you have to work on realizing who you are, you know, understanding who you are as a person. What are your values, what are your motivations in life outside of your conclusive sexual identity outside of your addict identity? Well, the are those things. And it takes time. It’s a process. So you see, it doesn’t have to be about soothing yourself necessarily. It can be about just, you know, trying to find a I would say a place in the, in the world’s trying to feel significant and trying to feel like your life matters or that you have some kind of identity at least.

Craig (29:16):
And for you guys out there who are struggling with infidelity I want to say this, it’s not the sex, it’s the significant, so exactly what Adrian is talking about now. You know, I like to say this, the percentage of men that I’ve worked with who are who primarily, who’s their number one problem is sex and porn related or sex and porn dominant. That number is drum roll please.

Adrian (29:48):
Zero

Craig (29:50)
Zero, zero, zero, zero. What I mean by that is the behavior is the symptom. So for you brothers who no, the porn stars names, follow him on social media, get, you know, a boner when your retweeted or something’s liked on social media or, or the cam girl gives you that extra bit of attention. Or, or if you’re cheating, no, just reflect on what

Adrian (30:20):
That

Craig (30:21):
The whole situation is doing for you. And, and I predict that you will see when you’re ready to see it.

Adrian (30:28):
It’s not the sex,

Craig (30:31):
It’s the significance. And you know, that has been my, like literally uniform conclusion over the years. And again, just the highlights,

Adrian (30:43):
All the different

Craig (30:45):
Complex roles that sexual behavior plays in our lives and why treating it or too much of it as a disease. I really, really, I don’t know how you can listen to what I’m saying and, and say

Does that disease word make sense to me? And that doesn’t mean you lose, you know, I’m not saying don’t take away your community like you do what you gotta do to be successful. And I have the audacity, the Chris’ criticized the model and I charged people to join my program. So I want to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. And you know, I want you to see how complicated this is cause I’m pretty confident in each one of our points that we made. Most men are going to be able to find themselves in at least a few different areas and we’re still not done. We’re still not done. Let’s talk about OCD agent.

Adrian (31:47):
Yeah. Role there. Tell me about that. Yeah, yeah. Like you know, another thing that happens, I think for some people is that they have this obsessive compulsive personality or obsessive obsessive compulsive disorder. For those who don’t know about it. It’s a situation where you have heightened anxiety level or the time, and because of that, you have, you develop rituals that make you feel home again, right? So you can, for example, wash your hands 20 times, right after, after eating something or you may close your doors three times, you have to close your door three times. You don’t have to feel you know, to feel called. So that’s part of OCD. Of course, our obsessive thoughts as well. You’re thinking about something all the time over and over again, ruminating, right? That’s an obsession. And I think that, you know, compulsive sexuality can fit into that model as well because for many people it’s about their, their anxiety and they start looking for this Fairfax ritual that will make them feel calmer.

Adrian (32:53):
So some people call that staff videos or you know, they collect magazines or they play books, you know, and they have to have perfect collection or they have to seek for the perfect scene and they have the whole folders of files that are filled with the best scenes from, from foreign movies. And I’m not being triggering on purpose here. I’m just sharing those examples for you guys so you can maybe see yourself in some of that if that’s the case and you just have to repeat your ritual and it has to be done in this perfect manner. And, and you know, it’s just something that is I would say very schematic and repetitive all the time. And there’s a lot of, I would say seeking for perfection in that behavior that may be the sign that they’re struggling. Some of those OCD traits, you know, that this is actually the primary problem that you’re dealing with.

Adrian (33:47):
That there is heightened anxiety level and you have to learn how to deal with that anxiety better and a cognitive behavioral therapy here aloud or, or you have to go on meds, whatever works for you. We offer some tools also to deal with the anxiety on the Mindful Habit works for many guys. So I think that, you know, that can be a pattern as for like, I remember, I, I think at the end of my porn addiction I was seeking for perfect. I think it was hundred and eight and photos, there’s was like a magic number for me of sexual, like, like mute pictures, you know, those were not porn pictures. It was more artistic and tasteful, you know, more like an erotica. But I was seeking like the perfect body type and the perfect picture and the lighting and everything.

Adrian (34:38):
And I wasted, I think hundreds of hours on that. You know, I wasted huge amounts of time on creating the perfect collection. And then, you know, then I decided I just want to quit. I want to, I want to recover. I, I’m, I’m sick of it and I started working with your prac, but it’s took me actually, you know, I think half a year until I was strong enough to delete that collection. You know, like I was, I was healthier, a healthier a sober, you know, using the addiction terms and getting coffee or free from those compulsive behaviors. But you know, it took me that much time to just realize, okay, I have to delete that [inaudible] collection. And it was extremely hard because I felt I spent so much time, so much effort. That’s my clarific collection, what is going to call me down now.

Adrian (35:25):
So that’s an example of, of obsessive compulsive, the fade or OCD theme, the Coppens. And I find that in many other areas of my life, I have to create lists for stuff that I’m doing and the least has to be perfect. That’s a very OCD. The other things, you know, like, like creating a group collection that has to be verified. Maybe you have some similar issues. That’s my, in sharing that it may be sexual, it may be part of those visuals. Yeah. It’s, you know, my mind is bouncing in 50,000 different places because it is such a complicated issue. Adrian and in there there’s, you know, we see it so much. There’s, there is and I, I was thinking of a couple things I was thinking of tear up and Tara is the wife of a guy who I worked with, Dan, beautiful man and Mmm.

Adrian (36:18):
She helped us and she had OCD and it was the Mindful Habit System was the only thing that worked for her. And then there was some other people with those CD that we, you know, I haven’t done well with. So again, everybody is different. Everybody is different and it, you know, you may check the OCD ritual box kinda and, and you may have four or five other categories as well. Then just to be clear, this list is not exclusive. It is not exhaustive and it is not mutually exclusive in that you pick, if you fall into this category, you don’t fall into others. No, that is not true. You likely fall into multiple categories. Yeah. Multiple categories. And this last one is near and dear to me personally. Look, talk about the role of trauma in compulsive sexual behavior. Adrian. Yeah, sure. So I, that was the last idea that came to me.

Adrian (37:21):
Maybe there are more models or sources of, of compulsive behaviors, but well I’ve seen with the in the clients that I’m working with is that some of them suffered abuse sexual abuse, especially as children. And because of that they created this world view of what sexuality, EES, and what did you of who they are and what is their value. So you know, there’s this mechanism in psychology that’s called, and that’s a hard word. Retraumatization so you’re retraumatizing yourself and you know, all that means is that, you know, you were, you know, you are, let’s say raped, and then you find a situation where you are again, at risk of being great. You’re seeking those kinds of situations, right? Or you’re seeing abusers, like it’ll be like in Stockholm syndrome, right? I know. Forgot about this. The victim of abuse wants to be abused again.

Adrian (38:25):
Right? So, and there is an explanation of that on the chemical level, on the brain level. And that the idea or that theory behind that behavior is that our brain, our XIP tries to resolve that trauma. I need to kind of resolve the you know, during the, this, the, the periods of safety. So we attempt to have the same trauma so we can finally process it in the right way. We can finally overcome it in a sense, you know, that that’s the way it’s explained. I think there are probably more explanations of that, but that’s the one that I understood and that, that kind of rings a bell when I was reading about that topic. So that happens for many people who are abused sexually. They tend to seek situations when they can be abused again or they put themselves at freeze.

Adrian (39:17):
Well translating sexual diseases or, or, or being abused or raped or, or, you know, other, other Adrian, what about men who had a unhealthy too abusive, same sex relationship when they were younger and that part of them was touched and then they lose themselves in transport and they lose themselves in gay porn. And here they are married and, and, and, you know, religious on the outside and on the inside, they’re deeply ashamed. You know, that, that the, these childhood experiences born in trauma that they’re reliving. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a great bond that it doesn’t have to happen in real life and happen in fantasies as well. Right? So you tried to relieve that experience by fantasizing about it so you can finally deal with it. Right. And it’s not your fault, guys who are struggling with this. I just want to say that to you.

Adrian (40:21):
It’s not your fault that you’re having those behaviors. It’s just a mechanism of your brain that’s tries to deal with the trauma until you process the trauma. Until you heal your trauma, these things will pop up. And it may be that you’re going to be triggered by certain things. You’ll the end of your life, but you can learn how to deal with your three guys, how to deal with the situations that the are you know figuring that, that, that, that flashbacks of trauma triggering those ideas of what happened, feelings. Oh, and that you felt back then you can deal with those events in a better way if you are in therapy or in coaching that is aimed at dealing with the trauma. So that can be one of the reasons why guys, you know, white guys do those things. And that is also, it’s not based on how they feel in the moment. It’s more based on them constantly feeling that they need to go back to that experience so they can finally get over it. You know, on the subconscious level, obviously it doesn’t happen by you saying to yourself, okay, no, I want to be, no, I’ve used, again, it doesn’t happen this way. Obviously

Craig (41:34):
What happens in your brain under the level of consciousness and diving deep into those wounds that are still festering growing living in you. And, and you know, when you look at so many of these different categories as you, you know, the reason for right now, the compulsive sexual behavior, I want to be clear. We’re not making excuses. I don’t, and, and for my partners who were listening now, you know, here’s, here’s what I want to say. You have been hurt, you are in pain and that is terrible. And, and I don’t want to do anything to make excuses for what your husband did. I want to help you understand why he did it. Maybe that might help that. I certainly want to help him. I need, I need, I need him to know. I need to him to understand there’s an input that created this output.

Craig (42:31):
There’s a reason why, you know, and listen, we’re just talking about the sexual behavior and, and I get more mileage talking to brothers about the lying, the compartmentalizing, you know, why did that ability to compartmentalize come from come from, how can you look your partner in the face and lie, eh, you know, there, there, there’s a reason, there’s a reason for that. And I’m Adrian, I want to thank you so much. Mmm. And thank you so much for being part of this team. And guys, if you want to call Adrian, there’s an 800 number. I want to give it to you right now. It is 1-800-214-FIVE two, four, nine. He is on a different continent. So make sure that you leave your name, your number, and your email address so he can contact you. Adrian is brilliant. I am so blessed to have him.

Craig (43:35):
Part of my team. I want to take full credit, dammit. Because there were, listen, there were, I had choices, people who I wanted to bring into my home into, into, you know, how I feed my family. And I knew Adrian was special. I knew, I knew it very early on. I saw that this, there’s this, the compassion and the empathy and his thoughtfulness and his intelligence. I just something about it said to me that this guy is going to be helping people. And I’m feel so blessed to have him on the team. So if you want to talk to him and you want either to work with him one on one or to learn more about the group coaching program from him. That number again is one 802 one four, five, two, four, nine. Make sure you leave your name, your phone number and your email address. And if someone wants to email you, Adrian, can they do that?

Adrian (44:34):
They want to email me. The best way is to send me just, just a message from your Gmail account or you know, whatever you’re using at Adrian, at www.themindfulhabit.com. I’m responding to emails within 24 hours. I’m available to you guys and we are going to figure something out. Like you see, I have the knowledge, I have the experience. I was struggling with those behaviors as well, so you cannot be in better hands.

Craig (45:06):
Yeah, no, thank you Adrian. So blessed and so privilege. And also guys, so you know, AGM plays a major role in our group coaching program. He’s responsible for reviewing everyone’s assignment. He’s responsible for he runs a number of group coaching calls for brothers in the program. He is a very, very important part of the Mindful Habit. We wouldn’t be where we are without him and I am blessed and privileged to have him on the team and I am blessed and privileged that you are listening to me. Thank you so much. I hope you learn something today. This is a complicated issue. There’s no such thing as a one size fits all. Anybody who tells you that is, is wrong, is wrong. Even my system, it’s not for everybody. We’re trying to find the right guys who it works for. Because there are so, so many inputs that could be creating the output. Here’s to you, brother. Thank you for listening. Thank you for being here. Thank you for you know listening is my closing draws on. Feed the right Wolf. Embrace your power of choice. Thank you. And visit me at www.themindfulhabit.com. Bye everybody.

Adrian (46:26):
Thank you.